Curse

96TSi · Mar 26, 2006, 02:03 PM // 14:03

I've found myself playing more and more PVP lately and by playing pve hardcore thru 4 characters completing the storyline, it kinda makes me wish sometimes that everyone should go thru pve to build their pvp character. It was kinda irritating to find out when deleting one of my characters for a dedicated rerolling pvp character that you start off with these weapons and armor that most pve players would love to get their hands on. it really was alot like a kick in the face to see some weapons that i had to save for so long to get obtainable by a click of a button.

but i guess the hardcore pvp players dont want to have to go thru the storyline and actually work on the character they play before taking it into battle? do a little Zaishen farming and you can buy all the skills you need.

agentnull · Mar 26, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

No where does it say that you can't access content due to guild or personal alliances. I jumped from side to side with no issue today. You clearly don't understand how the line works. It is rigged so that it becomes incredibly difficult to push it back completely. The trailing/defending side gets a map and hench help that is a significant advantage.

What was said sounded like stupid emoting, I have a hard time believing the complaining parties played much this weekend.

Oddly enough, I said the same thing five hours prior but apparently nobody read it.

Edit: Not trying to flame/bash/whatever you Thom, just making a point about whose posts people will actually pay attention to.

Asrial · Mar 26, 2006, 05:06 PM // 17:06

You don't need a guild to be good @ PvP in Tyria.

You don't need a guild to be good @ PvE in Tyria.

You don't need a guild to access all the content in Tyria.

These statements are true for the Canthan environment as well.

I consider myself well qualified to have an understanding of PvP AND PvE concepts, given my great enjoyment of both areas.

Ira Blinks · Mar 26, 2006, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by koneko

Sure, I like being called a "f'in Korean noob b**** haxor stfu die die die" in every PvP match that I play and then dealing with the flood of abusive whispers afterwards. Go away, speak for yourself.

PvP sucks. The Alliance battles and the areas like Fort Aspenwood areas aren't very fun, either. (Note: the previous statement was an opinion. Shhh.)

/signed
tho it is not the problem of pvp itself, it is community that sucks

Str0b0 · Mar 26, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

This has already been discussed long before factions was previewed. I think though that this only confirms some of our fears. Still I think that it is a bit early to tell since we don't get to see any of the progression in the game since it's all high level stuff to start with. I have to agree though this latest chapter is PvP centric. You only have to look at the new dynamics and the interviews with the developers to see that. I personally do not care for PvP. I enjoy the more casual experience of PvE and I do not like the idea of alliances. I too think it overly complicates things and suggesting an alliance with a PvP heavy guild isn't an option for me given the fact that I don't really like most of the people that do PvP. No offense intended but PvE people seem to be nicer and more easy going. I think all that competition get's PvP people wound too tightly and in turn their personality suffers greatly.

Don't even bother telling me about the new areas and items. They HAD to do that otherwise there wouldn't have been much of a game. At the end of the day though it's just a shiney new skin on the same old stuff. They didn't introduce any cool PvE content or functionality. All these nifty dynamic changes are based on PvP stuff not PvE. Dress it up all you like, append a score to it and say"well you fight monsters not other players and whoever has the highest score wins." It is still PvP.

SparhawkJC · Mar 26, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

The PvE community isn't much better with Chinese sweatshops, power levelers, mission runners, and beggars. Is it to much to ask people to actually play the game?

Str0b0 · Mar 26, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparhawkJC

The PvE community isn't much better with Chinese sweatshops, power levelers, mission runners, and beggars. Is it to much to ask people to actually play the game?

Hey I play the game. In fact that's all I really want to do. I want to play the game my way without the sneaking suspicion that I'm missing out on content just because I don't like PvP.

Sekkira · Mar 26, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Who here has missed out on FoW or UW because they don't play PvP?

I rest this case.

Str0b0 · Mar 26, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Who here has missed out on FoW or UW because they don't play PvP?

I rest this case.

Comparing a Prophecies instance to Factions is apples to oranges. The PvP and PvE aspects in Prophecies are not nearly as integrated as they are in Factions. It's much harder to just PvE for the reasons most people PvE, the items and exploration, without having to do one of these PvP missions. I can still explore FoW or UW without ever having to step into the Hall of Heros. I can't get the reward for some of these alliance missions without PvPing. Totally different situation.

Skarjak · Mar 26, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

This has already been discussed long before factions was previewed. I think though that this only confirms some of our fears. Still I think that it is a bit early to tell since we don't get to see any of the progression in the game since it's all high level stuff to start with. I have to agree though this latest chapter is PvP centric. You only have to look at the new dynamics and the interviews with the developers to see that. I personally do not care for PvP. I enjoy the more casual experience of PvE and I do not like the idea of alliances. I too think it overly complicates things and suggesting an alliance with a PvP heavy guild isn't an option for me given the fact that I don't really like most of the people that do PvP. No offense intended but PvE people seem to be nicer and more easy going. I think all that competition get's PvP people wound too tightly and in turn their personality suffers greatly.

Don't even bother telling me about the new areas and items. They HAD to do that otherwise there wouldn't have been much of a game. At the end of the day though it's just a shiney new skin on the same old stuff. They didn't introduce any cool PvE content or functionality. All these nifty dynamic changes are based on PvP stuff not PvE. Dress it up all you like, append a score to it and say"well you fight monsters not other players and whoever has the highest score wins." It is still PvP.

I was under the impression that there were 2 new professions, new skills and armors for the old ones, new skins for your weapons and shields and additional pve quests and missions in a whole new world.

That's not really what I would call "shiney new skin on the same old stuff".

I mean if new skills, professions and new missions are not enough, I don't think there is much more they can do to please you.

Str0b0 · Mar 26, 2006, 07:48 PM // 19:48

How about making it so that all the cool dynamic changes they instituted are based on mission completion, and no I don't count alliance missions as missions they are PvP with a score, or quest completion. Just a tag to make a certain function run to change my instanced world when I go out. You know if I help the Luxons in this mission I want to see the repurcussions of that. I don't want to see battle lines drawn based on some goofy new PvP gimmic. And don't go bringing all the new skills and the new professions. Again they HAD to do that otherwise there wouldn't have been much of a game to justify selling. I expected that stuff to come my way. That's just a given. You have to give new stuff in a follow-up title otherwise you end up lacking substance. In the end though it is the same old boring do this quest move to point A. Complete mission at point A move to point B. No dynamic content has been added for PvE it's all PvP stuff and frankly speaking you'll never convince me otherwise. It's as plain as day that this game was made for PvP not PvE. PvE went in like an afterthought here and that pisses me off. I'm hoping this is just the Sophomore Slump and that chapter 3 willl see them get it right.

Sekkira · Mar 26, 2006, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

How about making it so that all the cool dynamic changes they instituted are based on mission completion, and no I don't count alliance missions as missions they are PvP with a score, or quest completion. Just a tag to make a certain function run to change my instanced world when I go out. You know if I help the Luxons in this mission I want to see the repurcussions of that. I don't want to see battle lines drawn based on some goofy new PvP gimmic. And don't go bringing all the new skills and the new professions. Again they HAD to do that otherwise there wouldn't have been much of a game to justify selling. I expected that stuff to come my way. That's just a given. You have to give new stuff in a follow-up title otherwise you end up lacking substance. In the end though it is the same old boring do this quest move to point A. Complete mission at point A move to point B. No dynamic content has been added for PvE it's all PvP stuff and frankly speaking you'll never convince me otherwise. It's as plain as day that this game was made for PvP not PvE. PvE went in like an afterthought here and that pisses me off. I'm hoping this is just the Sophomore Slump and that chapter 3 willl see them get it right.

PvP was originally based around PvE characters going head to head. Then the PvP characters were implemented.

Ensign · Mar 26, 2006, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali Ma

Grind guild? I was talking about people who actually like to play PvE and/or roleplaying, not grinding/farming.

Those players are going to be largely unaffected by the whole faction war, unless they want to become involved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

(minor bug; if you have perfect Faction with both sides atm, they both hate you whether you've befriended them or not).

Interesting, when I hit perfect faction with each one they both were friendly. It must get confused about what to do if faction is identical on both sides. The zero case is going to be more interesting though, IMO, since you're going to hit 0 on both sides pretty often by cashing out you faction.

At least I'm going to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I enjoy the more casual experience of PvE and I do not like the idea of alliances.

If you just want to work your way through zones and do quests at your own pace you can completely forget about the faction war, and still have access to an experience on par with what you get in Prophecies. The big difference is that the endgame in Factions is larger and more open-ended. While the endgame in Prophecies was a short jaunt of six missions and a few explorable areas, the Factions endgame is a huge part of the world, and instead of being mission driven it is a sprawling network of quests.

If you're looking for a casual, endgame PvE experience that's on par with what we had in Prophecies, I think it's there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I too think it overly complicates things and suggesting an alliance with a PvP heavy guild isn't an option for me given the fact that I don't really like most of the people that do PvP.

There's no need to get involved in the faction war at all if you don't want to, and I didn't see any sort of need to PvP. Where that line is on the map is largely irrelevant if what you're interested in doing is a series of quests deep in the forest. The NPCs in some of the 'contested' outposts will change with posession as the line moves, but your access to those outposts never changes. Your individual account can ally with both factions dynamically, regardless of what your guild is doing.

I really don't know what you think you need to ally with PvP guilds for, as everything I've seen in the preview event so far has implied a system that truly gives individuals control over their experience with the conflict only as a backdrop. You aren't forced into doing anything you didn't want to do before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

No offense intended but PvE people seem to be nicer and more easy going. I think all that competition get's PvP people wound too tightly and in turn their personality suffers greatly.

Or we are wound that way naturally. In any case I believe that is a fair assessment. There's some inherent conflict just based upon the personalities, and it does go both ways - while you can look at a stereotypical PvPer and see someone who's too serious and judgmental, the other side sees the PvE scene as ignorant and frivolous. Everyone is not going to get along, and fortunately the game recognizes that and doesn't require people to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Don't even bother telling me about the new areas and items. They HAD to do that otherwise there wouldn't have been much of a game. At the end of the day though it's just a shiney new skin on the same old stuff.

What exactly were you looking for then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Hey I play the game. In fact that's all I really want to do. I want to play the game my way without the sneaking suspicion that I'm missing out on content just because I don't like PvP.

Reality check: you're missing out on content in Prophecies if you don't PvP. If you're going to dislike a game simply because there is optional content within it that you don't like, I don't feel that we can really have any sort of constructive conversation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

It's much harder to just PvE for the reasons most people PvE, the items and exploration, without having to do one of these PvP missions.

I'm sorry but I have no idea what you're talking about. What PvE content is locked off by PvP missions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I can't get the reward for some of these alliance missions without PvPing.

Which? I only spent around 6 hours in the PvE portion of the game and never encountered this so I'd like to hear about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

How about making it so that all the cool dynamic changes they instituted are based on mission completion, and no I don't count alliance missions as missions they are PvP with a score, or quest completion. Just a tag to make a certain function run to change my instanced world when I go out.

Just to confirm - you are not suggesting that PvE quest and mission completion be used to move the world faction line, since that would just be 'PvP in a clown suit'. You are suggesting that each individual player has his own faction line that moves depending entirely upon that individual player's actions, correct?

Peace,
-CxE

Loviatar · Mar 26, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Ensign

am i correct in my reading that if your faction has control of a city it will offer you some *BONUS* opportunities but the average player of either faction will not notice much difference?

and over on the other side of the line they will have those same type bonuses /benefits for their side?

Skarjak · Mar 26, 2006, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

And don't go bringing all the new skills and the new professions. Again they HAD to do that otherwise there wouldn't have been much of a game to justify selling. I expected that stuff to come my way. That's just a given. You have to give new stuff in a follow-up title otherwise you end up lacking substance. In the end though it is the same old boring do this quest move to point A. Complete mission at point A move to point B.

A given? Hardly. You do realise that this is a gigantic expansion we are receiving? Most companies add a few missions/levels/whatever, a few new features and that's it, we've got a new expansion. Arena.Net is offering us an expansion so massive it can be played on it's own. And they're going to do it every 6 months. Once they get the machine rolling and we get our bianual expansions, we will probably get just as much (or even more) content then MMORPGS without having to pay for the content and the monthly fee.

I honestly do not know why you are not happy. You've basically got a brand new game to explore. They could have just added new professions. They could have only added a couple of missions. It was never a given that they would give us such massive expansions.

And honestly, it's not like there is much to change about the mechanics of PvE play. However you put it, it always boils down to "complete mission A, go to place B". I find the addition of factions to be rewarding even for PvE players, since they can still get faction without PvPing one second.

WasAGuest · Mar 26, 2006, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensign

Which? I only spent around 6 hours in the PvE portion of the game and never encountered this so I'd like to hear about it.

Without starting several characters you will run out of quests that give faction points and will be unable to gain that needed 10k for the story mission. The only ways to get it all is to either PvP or start a new character and repeat the quests again.

I had 10k faction with Luxon and Kurzick and the Kurzick merchants would not speak to me. So I can assume that I am unable to puchase armor or weapons from them for some wierd design descision. I even went and blitz all my faction points to get the to zero and they still would not talk to me. Totally locked out. No idea why. Bug maybe?

Issues arise in long term looking, not just FPE. In FPE it's easy to make a character and quickly do the quests for faction points. In the real game, it's been said by Jeff Strain in his interview, that after the Factions "ascention" you will then choose a side. This means to me that switching sides will not be easy nor fast. It also means that gaining faction points after the quests are all done will be based off of the PvP mini games.

Faction points, as we now know, will be needed for armor componants, guild (alliance) standing, and access to missions. So all players wishing to take part in the end game will either PvP or not have anything to do. End game is what the PvEers have been asking for, now that there is some, it's being locked out or rewarded to those that PvP. That's where the issue comes up.

The attitudes of players is to a degree a major factor in why Anets desire for the two to come closer, will IMO, fail. For those that enjoy both PvP and PvE, it's a moot point. But for those that enjoy one or the other, the personalities show extreme and conflict results. I haven't heard the following comments since before Asheron's Call 2 failed, but now I'm hearing them so often in GW I got a laugh. These terms: "Carebears" and "Griefers". These competitive missions open this play difference once again and the two playstyles clash.

The PvEers (like me), or "Carebears" want to get through the mission as quickly as possible to gain those points we need as quickly as possible so we can move on. For the most part, I think we cold care less about the borders unless they lock us out of something.
The PvPers, or "Griefers" are seeing PvEers as easy prey and are jumping into grief and gain an easy win.
System wasn't built with that in mind, but see the amount of droppers and leavers and you'll see the system in play.

I didn't make these nicknames, they've been around for years, so don't blame me for them.

After the FPE I am glad to say I did try it. Doing so removed any unsure feelings about my having canceled my pre-order.

If you think I'm flaming Factions, far from. Factions is a great PvP addition to GW and I'm sure those players that enjoy PvE and PvP will enjoy it greatly. PvP also seems to have some much needed upgrades. PvEers may need to wait untill Chapter 3 to get the content we are really wishing to see though.

Pharalon · Mar 26, 2006, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

Without starting several characters you will run out of quests that give faction points and will be unable to gain that needed 10k for the story mission. The only ways to get it all is to either PvP or start a new character and repeat the quests again.

There were at least half a dozen repeatable faction-giving quests available just this weekend. I'm sure there were plenty more available that I didn't find (I only played for an hour), I'm sure they'll put in more of that type before release, and you'll also have repeatable PvE Challenge missions to gain faction, which were locked for this weekend. The rest of your post is just a rant based off misconceptions.

Omega X · Mar 26, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by WasAGuest

After the FPE I am glad to say I did try it. Doing so removed any unsure feelings about my having canceled my pre-order.

You are like the 10th person that I've seen say that and they all have a problem playing any sort of PvP match even once.

dreamhunk · Mar 26, 2006, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom

There is a bit of misunder standing (sic) here. I know we've been through this already, but there is a difference between heavily structured and open RPGing. I personally enjoyed the level of lore and questing involved in this weekend. It seems that Anet moved away from the prophecies mode of linear story lines and went to more of a quest heavy system. Guild wars isn't ever going to be a free for all, but factions felt much more open IMO.

Sekkira thank you I will make note on my spelling. I am bad at grammer and spelling. English has always been my worst subject. If you wish to help with my grammer feel free to pm, But thank you.

Thom I think we have a little mis under standing. I agree that the first guild wars is linear, But the quest is still linear. Thom I don't know if you have ever tired games like knights of the old republic, Never winter Nigths, and boulder's gates. If you have then you under would stand what I am talking about a little more.

There is no interaction between the plays and npc's. I felt in the game there was little freedom. I will give some examples of what I mean. I will start with hair designs. You only get to choose only six hair styles. I feel there is little chosse from or lack of freedom in that. When I you talk to npc's there is little interaction. It is more like a yes or no to doing the quest, there is no freedom in that and it is very liner. I feel the quest forces you to choose a side. Why can't someone be neutral, See this what Rpg is all about. It is about inter acting with the story.I notice to do the quest you always have to go to a npc. Why can't a npc come to you and ask you about doing a quest. Why can't a npc address you by what you are wearing. Here is an example if charactor is wearing 15k armor have the npc think hat person is rich. As a result the npc act different for the good or the bad.

I also think the story based missions are what is must important to pve players. We want to see the end story of mossions and quest. The first GW failed in that aera too. people are still wondering how chapter one will end. The story doesn't even make since.

I also view lore as different as you do. Lore is the history or information to set the mood of the game. Lore can be usless information too. It makes it fun for rpg players to read them. Tom your a beta tester, if you have tired any of the games I have said do try them on your off time. I also recomend that that the games designers try these games I have said. You will have better understanding of RPG players.

knights of the old republic, Never winter Nigths, and boulder's gates

Shattered Self · Mar 26, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

Sekkira thank you I will make note on my spelling. I am bad at grammer and spelling. English has always been my worst subject. If you wish to help with my grammer feel free to pm, But thank you.

Thom I think we have a little mis under standing. I agree that the first guild wars is linear, But the quest is still linear. Thom I don't know if you have ever tired games like knights of the old republic, Never winter Nigths, and boulder's gates. If you have then you under stand what I am talking about a little more.

There is no interaction between the plays and npc's. I felt in the game there was little freedom. I will give some examples of what I mean. I will start with hair designs. You only get to choose only six hair styles. I feel there is little chosse from or lack of freedom in that. When I you talk to npc's there is little interaction. It is more like a yes or no to doing the quest, there is no freedom in that and it is very liner. I feel the quest forces you to choose a side. Why can't someone be neutral, See this what Rpg is all about. It is about inter acting with the story.I notice to do the quest you always have to go to a npc. Why can't a npc come to you and ask you about doing a quest. Why can't a npc address you by what you are wearing. Here is an exmple if charactor is wearing 15k armor have the npc think hat person is rich. As a result the npc act different for the good or the bad.

I also think the story based mossions are what is must important to pve players. We want to see the end story of mossions and quest. The first GW failed in that aera too. people are still wondering how chapter one will end. The story doesn't even make since.

I also view lore as different as you do. Lore is the history or information to set the mood of the game. Lore can be usless information too. It makes it fun for rpg players to read them. Tom your a beta tester, if you have tired any of the games I have said do try them on your off time. I also recomend that that the games designers try these games I have said. You will have better understanding of RPG players.

knights of the old republic, Never winter Nigths, and boulder's gates

If you bought Guild Wars thinking it was going be like KotOR, NWN, and BG, you were misinformed. Guild Wars is more like a Everquest/Diablo hybrid. When a game goes large-scale multi-player, you have to give up a certain amount of roleplaying. I found more lore in the Factions preview than in pretty much all of Prophecies, so you should be happy on that account.

As far as the Prophecies campaign goes, if it didn't make sense then you weren't paying attention. It's an odd story, but it's internally consistent and covers everything except a few little epilogue bits that can't really be conveyed in the scope of the game.